I'd like to bring together the two very useful strands that TWW and RT give us.I posted a question and some thoughts about marathon goals. RT, as I understand it, read it as a times and training thread. I threw out a goal time of a sub-3 marathon. RT rightly called me on it, asking, "What's your history", ie times? "How are you going to train to get there?"In the world of racing, you are judged by your times (or, in tactical races, by results: who you beat). It doesn't matter whether you enjoyed the run, felt a deep connection with mother earth at mile 17, or puked your guts out on the finish line. If you're a guy and 25, and you run a 5 hour marathon, you're slow. If you're the same age and run 2:15:00, you're fast. That's it, end of story, no need to ask anymore. How does the 5-hr guy get faster. He trains, he runs high mileage, he does all the stuff we know about. How does he get more enjoyment out of his running? That's a whole different question, but not totally unconnected to times and training.Tww, who has run the sub-3s, has nothing whatsover to prove. Just as Bill Clinton is always President Clinton and George Bush will always be President Bush (see how fair I'm being?), and Frank Shorter will always be a gold medal winner, Tww is forever a sub-3 marathon runner: he can prove it. It doesn't matter if he has no inclination to keep on proving it in races. He has done it and has other priorities today (sorry if I am reading too much into this).Both insights are useful. If you want to race and be fast, especially as a master, listen to RT. He knows what he's talking about. If you want to experience the love of running everyday, listen to TWW. Darn it, listen to both of them, mix and match and learn. Btw, I also listen to everyone else on here, men and women alike, juniors (under 45s) and seniors alike, low mileage and high mileage guys and gals. It's all good.Newsflash... it's 7.30 pm in London, almost dark. It's wet, been raining all day, and cold.